The Colonial Newsletter: New Year's clearance of newsletter back issues is underway with hardcopies available at $3.00 each and a PDF file of issues #1 - #103 available for $45.00. Further information on the Colonial Newsletter is available at ANA, including a comprehensive index for all issues. Colonial Newsletter can be contacted at - The Colonial Newsletter Foundation, Inc./ P.O.Box 4411 / Huntsville, AL 35815 or CNLF@CNLF.ORG.

Davissons Ltd Catalogue: Fall 2004 priced catalogue of coins, tokens, medals and references arrived in the mail yesterday. Several conders are offered including a "choice" Sussex DH1. Also offered is the 2004 Dalton and Hamer either bound as one volume or in six individually bound volumes. Auction 22 is reported as planned for an "early 2005 close". Email, call or write coins@cloudnet.com ; (320) 685-3835 ; Davissons Ltd Cold Spring MN 56320-1050 for further information.

Stack's Coin Galleries Auctions: Stack's December 2004 Auction is a Mail Bid Sale which closes Tuesday, December 14 at 3:00pm ET. There only appear to be 5 conders offered (lots 1394-1398) but the new(?) catalogue software that displays items is very fast and easy to use.

Cheapside Tokens: Larry Gaye is in the process of migrating his conder items from his site, the Byzantine Coin Store to a new site, Cheapside Tokens. A link to the new site has been added to the Conders for Sale page which can be found by using the link on the menu to the left.

the_coin_guy77 on ebay: Some nice items at auction ending in the next couple of days and a good selection of "Buy it Now" material ... the_coin_guy77 could very well be "your top choice for 'Conder' Tokens on ebay" ... check it out for yourself at www.condertokens.com .

Colonial Coin Collectors Club Meeting: C4 or The Colonial Coin Collectors Club is currently having their annual convention in Boston coincident with the November 11-14, 2004 Bay State Coin Show at the Radisson Hotel at 200 Stuart Street. An auction open to C4 and/or Early American Copper (EAC) members only is scheduled for Saturday night, November 13, 3004. Both C4 and EAC membership may be of interest to Conder enthusiasts. More information on each is available at their respective websites. There is also a Yahoo discussion group for both EAC and C4.

Conder Token Scans and More: A CD, created by Dr Gary Sriro as he built his own Conder collection, which contains high resolution images of more than 2,500 Conders with an associated rarity measure in terms of the number of each token seen on the market in recent years from a database of over 23,000 records is available. A second CD is available that allows keyword search of legends on these same tokens to aid in identification. Further information on these CDs can be obtained by emailing Dr. Sriro at gsriro@adelphia.net .

NOTE: This item has been updated several times since this post. As of March 2010 it includes 3850 Conders and sells for $39 + $4 S&H. Gary's email is now gsriro@gmail.com .

Conder Search Trivia: A look at last week's logs for this site show the following search terms were used to get here: conder tokens, british conder, tokens, conder token, provincial token-coinage, princess of wales conder token, seventeenth century tokens for sale, parys mountain coins, what is a conder token, stuart communion tokens, soho mint, token congress, and winged propeller restrike. The logs also show that 60% of the searchers used Google, 30% Yahoo and the remaining 10% other search engines including AOL, MSN, Altavista, and AskJeeves. I'm hoping most folks either found what they were looking for here, or information on where else they might look and I'm thinking those who are not already members should consider joining the Conder Token Collector's Club. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) for further membership info or visit the Conder Token Collector's Club web site for further CTCC info.

Good Progress with "Good Money": George Selgin has written regarding the book he is currently working on about Great Britain's commercial coinage experience between 1787 and 1821, that the prologue and six of the book's nine chapters are now completed, and that the latest drafts of these are online, in pdf format, on his personal page.

CTCC Journal Volume IX Number 3 Fall 2004: The 33rd consecutive issue of this informative CTCC publication arrived in the mail today. Features include "Token Tales - Fresh Fish, Alive, Alive Oh!" by R.C. Bell,"Gold Conder Tokens" by Michael Knight, "The Canals of Britain and Their Tokens" by Bill McKivor, "Canal Restoration and Conder Tokens" by David Jones, "An Allegorical Octet" by Tom Fredette, "The Warley Issue" by A.W. Fox, "Bigod's Castle" by James Hartcup and more. The quarterly Journal comes with membership in the Conder Token Collector's Club. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) for further membership info or visit the Conder Token Collector's Club web site for further CTCC info.

DNW COINEX Week Auction Results: The DNW Internews Page reports that "There was huge pre-sale interest in the offering of the first part of the important collection of 18th century tokens formed by the late Dr David Spence of Pittsburgh, with the 238 lots on offer disposed of in 90 minutes for £57,860 (£66,539), over £20,000 more than anticipated." Visit DNW for a more complete auction report and prices realized.

Conder Cabinet Update: Currently there are 307 images
available at The Conder Cabinet including a recently added half dozen beautiful Northumberland tokens courtesy of Dr. Gary Sriro ... take a look in the Cabinet, then take a look at tokens in your own collection and consider sending some image contributions to: Michael Grogan mngrogan@comcast.net .

Conder Concordance Prototype: I've put together a prototype search form which will accept search words you find on a token face or edge, identify tokens that have those words, and identify pages in D&H where these tokens can be found to finalize identification. This concordance has a long way to go before it is particularly useful ... right now there is only information from about 60 tokens, starting from Bedfordshire DH1 (page 1 of 1996 DH), loaded in the database. I'm looking for volunteers to help with the data entry into a simple Excel spreadsheet ... the 7000 or so tokens to go could be "easily" handled by 35 people doing 200 each ... except for maybe the mules. I'm also thinking that this prototype could easily be expanded to index token appearances in Bell and in the 2004 DH, and possibly include links to images in The Conder Cabinet where they are available.

CTCC ANA Pittsburg Meeting Notes: Scott Loos, CTCC Treasurer, has graciously provided a brief report of the recent CTCC meeting at ANA ANA World's Fair of Money® in Pittsburgh which I've further summarized here.

The 20 CTCC members in attendance discussed items that Gregg Moore, CTCC President, had provided including: pros and cons regarding an online edition of the CTCC Journal, online billing options for club membership, a website displaying conder types, and the possibility of publishing the CTCC Journal in house and in color. Jerry Bobbe then gave a short program on some of the personalities from the conder collecting community from the past.

Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) or visit the Conder Token Collector's Club web site for further CTCC info.

17th and 19th Century Token Bibliographies Added: Key reference books for 17th as well as 19th century tokens have been added to the existing 18th century references on the Bibliography page. All references have been "bookmarked" to allow a fast easy search for copies or each book at AddALL.

AddALL Added: A general search box for accessing AddALL, an excellent resource for out of print books, as well as specific targeted links to individual references have been added to the Bibilography page of this site.

Token Corresponding Society Bulletin: Volume 7 Number 12 for September 2004 has a lengthy article, A Stroll Around South Bridge, on the tokens and issuers of the South Bridge of Edinburgh by Andrew Andison which includes a short section on 18th century tokens issued by Robert Sanderson (D&H Lothian 53-56). This issue has additional informative paranumismatic articles, a flyer advertising the recently published Hern's Handbook on South African Tokens, and comes with separate booklets consisting of an Index to Volume 7, a Paranumismatic Index to Coin Monthly 1966-1992 (in which some 50 or so articles pertaining to 18th Century UK tokens are cited), and an Index to the Montague Guest Collection of Badges, Tokens and Passes in the British Museum. Volume 7 Number 12 also includes a reminder about the 2004 Token Congress in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire during 1-3 October and a reminder that now is the time to pay for subscriptions to Volume 8.

POC for the Congress is Mike Roberts who can be reached by mail at Mike Roberts / c/o Ramsdens / Ramsden Street / Huddersfield/ HD1 2TH / United Kingdom , or by phone at 01484 427709 or by email at mike.roberts@ramsdens.co.uk .

Token Corresponding Society Bulletin cost to UK is £10, for Europe £15 and for the rest of the world is £18. Sterling cheques or equivalent £, $ or Euro notes for the proper amount payable to Token Corresponding Society, and sent to Gary Oddie / 196 Manor Gardens / Cambridge Street / St Neots / Cambridgeshire / PE19 1PU / United Kingdom should get you a subscription.

Coinex 2004: The UK's biggest international numismatic event is 8-9 October at the London Marriott Hotel Grosvenor Square, 10-13 Grosvenor Square, London, W1K 6JP .

A B C Coins & Tokens Site Updated: David Stuart of Alnwick British & Colonial Coins & Tokens announced today that "many sections of our web site have just been updated with new material, including a new section devoted to Anti-Slavery coins and tokens". I took a quick look and the sections for English, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh Tokens & Conders have all been updated.

CTCC Meeting at ANA World's Fair of Money®: A CTCC meeting is planned for Friday 20 August in conjunction with the 2004 ANA World's Fair of Money® which runs 18-22 August in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) or visit the Conder Token Collector's Club web site for further CTCC info.

Copper Corner August Sale List: Bill McKivor of The Copper Corner has sent out a consignment E-List for August 2004. Bill can be reached at Copperman@thecoppercorner.com .

CTCC Journal Volume IX Number 2 Summer 2004: The 32nd consecutive issue of this CTCC publication arrived in the mail today. Features include "Token Tales - Thomas Paine in France" by R.C. Bell, the third part of "Britain's Big Problem" by George Selgin, "John Howard F.R.S. Humanitarian" by Tom Fredette, "Notes on 'The Virtuoso's Companion and Coin Collector's Guide'" by Michael Knight, "The Bacon of Dunmow and Why it Needs a Lawyer" by Tony Fox, and much more . The quarterly Journal comes with membership in the Conder Token Collector's Club. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) for further membership info.

The Conder Cabinet is "Open": Mike Grogan has announced that this website at www.thecondercabinet.org which consists of high quality full color images of choice tokens is "up and running" with 175 fine images and more expected to be added almost daily. Well worth repeated visits and providing an image or two for use. Your comments and image contributions should be sent to: Michael Grogan mngrogan@comcast.net .

New Price List from The Copper Corner: List #37 for July-September 2004 with 18th Century "Conders", 17th and 19th Century tokens and more from The Copper Corner is available. Bill also provides a short take on the "state of the token".

Copper Corner List Coming: Bill McKivor has written to announce that List # 37 will be out via email on the 6th of July.

Charles Davis Numismatic Literature Auction: Catalogue for a Mail bid sale from Charles Davis which closes 31 July 2004 arrived today. There are two copies of Commercial Coins 1787-1804 by R.C. Bell and Matthew Boulton by H.W. Dickenson as well as other conder related items among the 557 lots. Charles Davis can be reached at P.O. Box 547 Wenham MA 01984 USA, (978) 468 2933 or numislit@aol.com .

New Interview: An interesting and informative exchange with Gregg Moore, president of the Conder Token Collector's Club, is now available and can also be found, along with previous interviews, at the Interviews link on the menu at the left.

PNG/ICTA Grading Survey: A paid advertisement regarding a legal dispute over a grading company survey done in 2002 by the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) in conjunction with the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA) caught my attention while I was reading the July 2004 Numismatist which arrived a couple of days ago. The survey, as well as other information at the PNG and ICTA web sites, seem well worth a quick look. I've added permanent links to both organizations' sites from the Other Resource page which can be selected from the menu on the left.

Token Corresponding Society Bulletin: Volume 7 Number 11 for June 2004 has a lengthy article on Bath Theatre and associated tokens which includes a short reference to D&H Middlesex 363 issued to commemorate the fast coaches conceived of by theatre manager John Palmer. This issue has additional informative "paranumismatic articles", book reviews and adverts as well as a reminder about the upcoming 2004 Token Congress. Additional information on the Bulletin and the Token Congress can be found by selecting Other Resources from the menu on the left.

Dix Noonan Webb Auction 62: The catalogue for DNW auction 62, scheduled for 30 June 2004, arrived today. Among the 1,850 lots of British and World coins, tokens, historical and art medals, numismatic books and banknotes are 27 lots (1295-1322) of 18th century provincial tokens including, at lot 1295, a Puddington halfpenny (DH 5). There is also, at lot 1616, a copy of "An Alphabetical List of Provincial Copper Coins of Tokens issued between the years 1786 and 1796" by S. Birchall and, at lot 1626, among a group of auction catalogues, is "Catalogue of Tokens formed by the late S.H. Hamer, Esq" with 802 lots from a November 1930 Sotheby auction. More information, including the ability to view forthcoming sale catalogues or search the database of every lot ever offered at auction by DNW is available at www.dnw.co.uk.

Token Activity Up, Up, Up: I can't be the only one that's noticed the increased number of tokens on Ebay, most notably from lockdales-of-ipswich (Lockdales of Ipswich - Eastern England's Premier Coin Dealers & Auctioneers of Collectables ), d.stuart (Alnwick British & Colonial Coins & Tokens) and the_coin_guy77, but from others as well. This EBay activity combined with the Davissons Ltd Auction 21 ending 10 June and the recent E-List from Copper Corner have provided a great opportunity for collectors ... and very soon of course, another excellent buying opportunity will be here with the 7 October Dix Noonan Web auction of the first part of the 18th century British trade tokens collection made by Dr David Lee Spence.

Copper Corner June Sale List: Bill McKivor of The Copper Corner has sent out an E-List for June 2004. He writes, "Here is a little list of Conder tokens and items that are not included on my regular quarterly list. The Conder tokens are from an old-time collection, where the collector was more interested in the varieties than he was in collecting in high grade. Year ago, that was the way it was done, and even today one would have a real problem trying to find all of the D&H numbers if high grade was the only thing being collected ... As usual, these E-mail lists rather assume that you shall use D&H to get descriptions, I don’t get as 'descriptive' as I do with my quarterly lists. If you have any questions, please E-mail me." Bill can be reached at Copperman@thecoppercorner.com .

Conder Images Needed: Mike Grogan writes "I am starting a new noncommercial website dedicated to the study and enjoyment of Conder tokens. It will consist of high quality images of choice tokens arranged by county and DH#. Anyone who has such images is invited to donate them for posting on the website. Of, course full credit for the image will be given to the donor. My hope is that this will be a longterm benefit to the hobby and your images will help make the project a success." He asks that interested persons send images for this project to, or contact him regarding this project at mngrogan@comcast.net .

Davissons Ltd Auction 21: Catalog for Auction 21 which closes 10 June 2004 is "in the mail". Lots 186-406 are from "the Bill Wahl collection of tokens as listed by Dalton & Hamer, Part II". Davissons can be contacted at coins@cloudnet.com or (320) 685-3835 .

Update on DNW Spence Auction: Peter Preston-Morley at DNW has graciously provided additional information on the upcoming Spence sale.

"We haven't started the promotional campaign for the Spence collection yet, but I can tell you that there are nearly 3,600 Conder tokens in it, almost all different. The collection was begun in the late 1960s and was largely complete by the early 1980s, by which time prices had, of course, risen considerably. Very few additions were made between 1986 and 1998, but a small number of rarities which eluded the collector back in the 60s and 70s, and which came onto the market following the dispersal of the Noble and Wayne Anderson collections a few years back, are included. Apart from these, the collection includes pieces from virtually all the named collections put together during the 20th century, including Dalton, Hamer, Cokayne, Longman, Farnell, A.W. Jan and Gerson. The collection represents the largest single dispersal of Conder tokens by auction in the UK since 1958 and it ranks as the second largest collection sold in the last 45 years (the Noble collection, which had 4,908 Conders, remains comfortably the largest of its kind dispersed in modern times). The collection will be sold in London in at least two parts, the first being on October 7th 2004, and the second part in October 2005. Both auctions will take place the day before the annual COINEX show, the UK's biggest international event of its type. Cataloguing will start in early June and details of the lots in the auction will be posted daily at www.dnw.co.uk while the cataloguing cycle continues."

ANA World's Fair of Money®: Upcoming ANA World's Fair of Money® will be in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center August 18-22 2004. A CTCC meeting is planned for Friday 20 August. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) or visit the Conder Token Collector's Club web site for further CTCC info.

DNW October Auction: Dix Noonan Web has announced in InterNews that their 7 October auction will include "the first part of the very important and comprehensive collection of over 3,500 18th century British trade tokens formed by the late Dr David Lee Spence, of Pittsburgh, USA, arguably the most important collection of its type to be auctioned since the Longman sale of 1958."

Davissons Ltd Auction 21: Lots for Auction 21 coming this spring will include "part II of the Bill Wahl collection of British Trade tokens". Davissons can be contacted at coins@cloudnet.com or (320) 685-3835 .

Boulton & Watt Papers: The Boulton & Watt Archive and the Matthew Boulton Papers from Birmingham Central Library have been published in 13 parts (each multiple rolls of microfilm) as Series One of a documentary history on the Industrial Revolution by Adam Matthew Publications. Further information can be found about two-thirds of the way down their Publication A-Z list. The Electronic Searchable Guide to Letters and papers exchanged between Matthew Boulton and other members of the Lunar Society (Part 1 of material above) is available online.

CTCC Journal Volume IX Number 1 Spring 2004: The 31st consecutive issue of this CTCC publication arrived in the mail today. Features include "Token Tales - Paine in Revolutionary America" by R.C. Bell, the second part of "Britain's Big Problem " by George Selgin, "Admiral Duncan" by Dick Bartlett, and much more . The quarterly Journal comes with membership in Conder Token Collector's Club. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) for further membership info.

Nice Tokens on Ebay: Some exceptionally nice tokens have been offered on Ebay by the_coin_guy77 . Auctions I looked at this morning run through 3 and 4 May.

Reprint of book by James Mudie: Mike Grogan has recently identified "Historical and Critical Account of a Grand Series of National Medals" as a book that may very likely be of interest to conder collectors. Mike writes, "In 1820, a gentleman named James Mudie produced a beautiful series of 40 bronze medals for sale. They depict people and events in British history over the preceding decades, primarily the Napoleonic wars period. Many of the subjects relate directly to the conder token era and/or depict people who also appear on conder tokens. He [Mudie] also published a book describing and illustrating the medals, including brief biographies of the people.....some were still living at the time! This makes fascinating reading, but the original book is rare and expensive. I have just obtained a newly published high quality reprint from Naval & Military Press ."

29th CICF: Next week the Chicago International Coin Fair begins its 29th annual run, April 29-May 2. Eighty-five booth holders, including dealers from Switzerland, Israel, Germany and England, will be at the Holiday Inn O’Hare International, 5440 N. River Road, Rosemont, Ill.

Postal Auction 31 at Simmons Gallery: Over 600 lots, from Roman tesserae to hop tokens and including 18th century tokens (lots 96-131), are being offered by Simmons Gallery in Postal Auction 31 that closes 25 May 2004.

New Interview: An informative discussion with George Selgin, author of "Good Money: How a bunch of Button Makers beat Gresham's Law, solved the most urgent Economic Problem of their day, and cleared the way for the Industrial Revolution" is now available . This discussion, along with previous interviews, can always be found at Interviews link on the menu at the left.

New Price List from The Copper Corner: As promised, here is the April-June 2004 List (34) with Conders, 17th and 19th Century tokens and more from The Copper Corner . Bill has the new 2004 Dalton & Hamer’s "Provincial Token Coinage of the 18th Century" with separate supplement available also.

Copper Corner List Coming: Bill McKivor of The Copper Corner has announced that he will have a new list out on Monday with Conders, 17th and 19th Century tokens, Evasions, Books, Medals, and Royalty pieces. He also states that he is buying and looking to hear from people on what they might have to sell.

Eurekster: A public SearchGroup for 17th, 18th and 19th Century UK Provincial token coinage collectors and enthusiasts has been added at the Eurekster search engine site for use by persons who register at Eurekster. Your participation could possibly turn this into a useful tool.

Price List from P. Flanagan & Associates: A short price list of 19th century token items has just arrived in the mail from P. Flanagan & Associates ... includes several shilling pieces. For more information email, call or write to x.flan@verizon.net ; (360) 240-8366 from 11AM to 11PM PST; Phil Flanigan PO Box 1288 Coupville WA 98239.

Site Revisions: I've adopted "blogging" technology for posting news items to this page. Blogging greatly simplifies some things - especially archiving items - and it allows for setting up a site feed for folks with news reader software who wish to follow posts to this page. Please report any glitches you may notice.

Token Corresponding Society Bulletin: Volume 7 Number 10 for March 2004 has arrived. This issue returns to the "normal mix of paranumismatic articles" with no conder references but still some very interesting reading. More information on the Bulletin and the associated Token Congress can be found by selecting Other Resources from the menu on the left.

Coin World Article: Read a short piece by Michele Orzano that answers the question "what are Conder tokens?"

New E-Mail Price List at The Copper Corner: "An interesting group of tokens, and a fantastic group of medals with wonderful historical interest" are available on this March 2004 List from The Copper Corner . Bill also has 2004 reissue of Dalton & Hamer.

DNW Auction 61: Catalogue arrived yesterday for DNW's 17 March 2004 auction includes 18th century British tokens as lots 1167 through 1216. There are 1700 lots in all with Part 1 of the Collection of English Short Cross Coins 1180-1247 of Jeffrey P. Mass being featured. More info is available at Dix Noonan Web from Conders for Sale page.

ABC Coins and Tokens Updated: The 17th Century, English and Scottish 18th and 19th Century tokens, Scottish Hammered, Irish, British Milled, British Colonies, World Hammered and World Milled coin sections of the Alnwick British & Colonial Coins & Tokens web site have just been updated.

Book in the Works: Excerpts from George Selgin's "Good Money: How a bunch of Button Makers beat Gresham's Law, solved the most urgent Economic Problem of their day, and cleared the way for the Industrial Revolution." which addresses an "episode involving copper coinage that took place in Britain from 1787 to 1797" are available from his web site.

New Interview: Discussion with collector Joel Spingarn is now available under Interviews on the menu at the left.

ANA National Money Show™ : Sure to be some conders here at Oregon Convention Center on March 26-28, 2004 in Portland, Oregon.

CTCC Journal Volume VIII Number 4 Winter 2003/04: The 30th consecutive issue of this CTCC publication is out. Features include "Token Tales" by R.C. Bell, the first of a three part look at "Britain's Big Problem " by George Selgin, "An American Numismatic Rarity Tale" by Eric Newman, "More on the Havering Ha'penny" by A. W. Fox, "Skidmore Churches in the City of London" by Simon Monks, "Galen of Pergamum" by Dick Bartlett, as well as a list of CTCC members and much more . The quarterly Journal comes with membership in Conder Token Collector's Club. Contact Gregg Moore (gregg.moore@comcast.net) for further membership info.

New Price List from P. Flanagan & Associates: January 2004 price list has just arrived in the mail from P. Flanagan & Associates ... more than 200 conders listed as well as key reference books for token collectors. For more information email, call or write to x.flan@verizon.net ; (360) 240-8366 from 11AM to 11PM PST; Phil Flanigan PO Box 1288 Coupville WA 98239.

Token Corresponding Society Bulletin: Volume 7 Number 9 for December 2003 has arrived in the mail. This issue is focused on forgies, fakes, fantasies and contains a few conder references in the articles presented. More information on the Bulletin and the associated Token Congress can be found by selecting Other Resources from the menu on the left.

ABC Coins and Tokens Updated: The English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh Conder Token sections of the Alnwick British & Colonial Coins & Tokens web site were updated today ... more nice items.

New Price List at The Copper Corner: January, February, March 2004 price list has arrived by email from The Copper Corner ... another nice selection of material.

Davissons Ltd Auction 20: Catalogue for this auction which closes 12 February 2004 arrived today. Part I of the Bill Wahl collection of 18th century trade tokens comprises Lots 249-532. Lot 557 is Davisson's 1994 publication of R.R. Samuel British Token material from 1880s as compiled by Harold Welch. Lots will be available for viewing at Orange County Florida FUN show 8-10 January 2004, New York International Coin Fair 15-18 January 2004, and Long Beach California Expo 29-31 January 2004. Davissons can be contacted at coins@cloudnet.com or (320) 685-3835 .

New York International Numismatic Convention: This year's convention will be January 15-18 2004 at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in NYC. Convention web site has extensive information. World Coin News Vol 31 No 1 January 2004 also has detailed information including list of booth holders. Bourse Chairman is Kevin Foley who can be reached at 414-421-3484, kfoley2@wi.rr.com .